kerdi membrane over cement board

Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Step 2: Determine the room's center. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. The colour is different. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Gettin' a little delirious. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Step 7: Cut the Tile. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. 4. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . It worked well - just like wallpapering. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. All it takes is the right preparation. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Step 3: Apply Thinset. rev2023.3.3.43278. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Installation. . In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? I also used the Kerdi drain. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? The 30-in. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. We sponge water onto the cement board. New England. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. I usually use Durock. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. . Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. Personally, I like standard drywall. Step 8: Allow to dry. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Redgard is a similar product. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Thanks Paul! All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. I still wet the walls first. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. Will add it in. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. They are square. Yup! Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Why you use cement board? You peeled it off? The shower is ready for tile. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. I trust it and have never had a callback. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? It may take more than 1 beer:). You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Hi David. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. How do I connect these two faces together? Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. The site is called floorelf.com. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. . And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. #2. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? ;). Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. It's still applied to cement board. What? It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Think about movement. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Required fields are marked *. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Cut the shower tray to size. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? 120 sq feet including the floor. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. I simply sponge off the excess. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Thanks to all for the feedback. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Thanks. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles.

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